Bruce interviewed by Nanja:

Ok, what do you do in music? | I make music, give livesets, I'm a dj and I organize freeparties..

We're talking of tekno now, but do you also like other types of music? | Ehh..drum'n bass, jungle, hiphop, soundscapes, aphex twin, other music consisting of just sounds, broken music. Broken tekno, breakbeats chopped to pieces, put together so that it looks like tekno, and it sounds like breakbeat but isn't.

What do you like about aphex twin or hip hop? | Hiphop because it's so very well put together. These days, I pay more attention to the technical details than before. I used to just like it, now I know why. The lyrics don't attract me at all, they can go for all I care. It's usually about stuff I'm not into, shooting people, troubled neighbourhoods. And all what's left is melody and basslines. And drums, but they're usually quite simple.

How did you end up with tekno, how did you get started? | My cousin took me to Teknival, at Maasvlakte. I liked it very much, walking around, saying "what is this? what is this? " We arrived, and I didn't get some sleep until three days later. And after a while, I started playing jungle, a bit terrorjungle. And after a while there were just no more records released that I really liked, so I thought " Fuck this, I can do this myself!" I bought a sampler, and things went downhill from that point on :-) First junlge, then broken stuff, tekno. It's just what I do now. At this point, it much easier to put those three things together.

As you went more to parties, did you start making more tekno? Did you like it better then or were you inspired by what you heard every weekend? | I think that eventually, you're inspired by what you hear, but it's not that I wanted to make what I got served. You're doing something, making music, you create something and gradually it becomes more jungle than tekno. I wasn't thinking " Ok, this should have a 4/4 beat...." My thought was: the music has a message, I can wrap it better in this than in jungle. And I can see that in what I'm doing right now, jungle is more and more integrated. Full circle eventually ?

What does tekno mean for you? Is it just the music, also parties or just a lifestyle? | Well, I don't like the sound of the word lifestyle, but it does cover it in fact. It slips into everything you do. Freeparties are actually the tip of the iceberg. It is the point of expression that is accessible for the majority of people. The other stuff that is also part of tekno, is way deeper in the water. These things are not seen by many, but contribute a great deal to the final product: party. That is cool, yes, a lifestyle I think. Well, at some point you develop certain thoughts and ideas, and when you start sharing those with other people, it becomes a way of life.

What is teknomusic to you? Does it have to do with repetitive, technological music? When would you call music tekno? | Hm... maybe tekno's the wrong word. When you say tekno, people think "basskick, high hat" . I think underground is a much more appropriate term. People putting their heart and soul into a song and putting it out on record. And the "boom boom" doesn't have to be a part of it, look for instance at Somatic Responses, judging by the beats, it isn't really tekno, but it is. So there is no difference really. But when you tell people that you like tekno, there's a vision of thought attached to it, But the boinkeboink, that's what's most played at parties, because it's so very dancable. But to me, everything that is published by people that have that way of life, that kind of music, no matter what genre it's put into, that to me is tekno.

What exactly do you mean by underground? What is that to you? | My life! Hm.. It's hard to explain what underground is. It's doing what you want. A lot of stuff that goes on in underground are things that are "not allowed", but they do relate back to what is allowed. And by the stuff that's not allowed, I mean breaking open a building at one a.m., throwing a party, these are things that are on the edge, in a bit of a twilight zone :-), whether or not accepted by society, and most things that can be called underground, are in that twilight zone or below.

You say underground is doing your thing. But does that include breaking the law? How do you balance that? | I think that regarding freeparties, as a system you should take in account a lot of things, no antisocial things should be going on. See, laws are created, things that tell you what you can and can't do, I'd rather have nothing to do with those. I think I'm smart enough to decide from my point of view what I can and cannot do. Antisocial behaviour is subjective, true, but I think that when a person looks deep inside himself, he'll know when he's out of line. But I think I've drifted off a bit from the question...:-)

In what way is tekno underground for you? | Part of it is, part isn't. See, next thursday in the Waterfront Rotterdam, I don't think that's really underground. But of course it does attract a certain type of public. I think I'll be there as well. But the thing is,last time was more of a relaxed little meeting with music for me, I missed the feeling, the specific atmosphere, the overall idea. A party in a warehouse to me feels much more like the real thing. As only clue you have a telephone number, you go somewhere, you're sent to another place, which you didn't know even existed. Seeing a party put together in a place no other people know of, that to me is more like underground. And I want it very much to stay that way. Those teaparties are not my type of party. And also the frequency of parties is too high I think. A party every two months would be much better in my opinion, because that way it stays much more special. And these days also the parties can be much easier found by people that don't care much about the atmosphere and music, this way, much more aggressiveness takes place, and that's not like it's supposed to be. I'd rather have those people stay at home! Lately, there have been more closed parties, and I'm not against it, because as a system, it's getting harder and harder to find for example a location. And also, it's a way for "natural selection" of tekno. Not really by excluding people, but making it hard to find a party, so that the people that really don't care about the music and atmosphere, the people that vandalize, make trouble, that are unnecessarily are aggressive, will no longer come. The tekno culture will diminish, and eventually flourish again.

What do you want to achieve by making your music? | I want to tell my story, I make music to pass on my feelings, my thoughts,and it's great to see the dj mixing your story with someone else's story and the result is a lot of people dancing, that's really great to see. It's an outlet, you can put so much into music, in a way the same as with writing. And my general message is quite simple : be good to eachother! To me it seems I make calmer music more and more, my ideas and way of thinking change, and so does my music. It doesn't matter so much as to who I reach with my music, that's just the thing, you'll pick up the message when you're ready and if you don't, that's ok, just dance to it.

In what way do you put that message into your music? Subliminal messages, beats, sounds? And how do you notice that your message is being picked up? | Mostly sounds, adjusting text samples so that it becomes sound. It would be nice if it would be picked up, but I don't make music for that. Maybe eventually, if I'm good enough, I'll be able let people pick up exactly what I put into the music, but for now, I'm not able to make a song sound exactly like what I had in my head. And I've been at parties, on the dancefloor, when they played our record, I saw people dancing with a big smile on their faces. That makes me feel so good! That to me is a sign that some things are definitely being picked up.

Do drugs play a role in this? | Hm..yes, I think so. Some types of drugs open up doors in your head, make you more open to ideas, ways of thinking, that's just true. Your engine just runs differently.

the robot logo from TDK records

In what way is playing different from making music? | For me it's harder. Making music means that I can tell my story exactly the way I want it, and with playing it's a matter of using other people's stories to create your own. When I'm playing, I don't want to set up my whole set in advance, I just pick out what I'd like to hear at that point, doesn't all fit though, I'm working with a much less public-orientated point of view. Now that I'm been playing a bit more lately it gets easier, but it's still a matter of working with music in a wholly different way, putting existing music together in stead of starting from scratch. To me, playing comes at third place, I'd rather give a liveset, build my story at the very moment, or make music. I do still buy records, to see how others tell their story in music, and because I only buy the records that really affect me, it's easier to play them in a set, because if I like their story, it's easier to build mine with theirs.

How do you link making music to parties, can one exist without the other? | Yes, I think one can do without the other, making music can go without the parties, it's just that most music that is made is played and sold at parties. But I think that there are lots of people making music in their little rooms, not ever having been to a party. But I myself was inspired by going to parties to make music, I don't know if I'd be where I am today if I hadn't gone to freeparties. For me, there is a interaction between the music and partying. Some parties just leave such an impression that it creates lots of new inspiration. It's too bad that there's been a sort of overkill lately, it makes the parties less special, just another one, there's almost no fun in that. Feed a person the same cookies every day and he'll stop eating them in no time. But I think there will be actions from police and politics, causing the tekno scene to grow smaller, so that the party that will be organised once in a while, will be bizarrely fantastic again.

In your opinion, should the whole world become "tekno" ? | Hmm. I don't know if I would like it to be that way. It would make a lot of things much easier I think. That is, the Dutch teknoscene is very relaxed. Lots of friends between partygoers and if someone doesn't like another, it hardly ever ends up in a fight. If the whole world would be like this, well, it would be much nicer.

Ok, sofar you've made records, you've cut down on working to be able to have more time for your music. Do you eventually plan on living from the music you make? | Hm..well, eventually I don't want to work anymore. That is the goal. So this means I guess living from the earnings of your records. I don't support the part of society that I work in. It doesn't give me anything, I don't want to have anything to do with it. The work's ok, but I'd rather have making music as a job. As a system, we want to go travel, live from the parties we'll give. And to me, it doesn't collide with the non-commercial attitude of tekno, because in my opinion, being commercial is putting out music on a record every month because your contract says so, or because you want to buy a third car, or because you know the world will love it. I don't want to do that, I don't want to create what anyone else thinks. If I'd put out a record every two months because that is what I need to live off, I wouldn't feel guilty for being commercial, because I wouldn't be commercial. I'd still be doing my thing, doing what I love, and if the lucky day comes that I can provide for myself with that, what could be greater than that?!

If a record label would be on your doorstep tomorrow, with a proposal for 5000 records, would you do it? | No. There are enough labels on which I would like to put out some music, but I think that if I'd accept mr. Sony's offer, I might as well have stayed at my job, also doing something I don't support.

There's been an article in Reload a while ago. Also Nieuwe Revu** has done a story on the tekno scene. Do you think this is a good thing? Even if the facts are more or less correct and objective displayed? | No, because this is underground. I think enough is being published about tekno, through the right channels. A magazine as Nieuwe Revu goes into the story not to talk about tekno, it's ideals and beliefs, but to display scandal, write in a popular way about things they don't begin to understand, to attract readers and sell copies.

But what if because of the article, one person starts going to parties, discovers the whole meaning behind those parties, and starts living his life in a different, maybe better way. Don't you think that's worth the publishing of the article? | No, I wouldn't think it worth it even if five, ten, a hundred people changed their life on account of it. The point is, the story in Nieuwe Revu wasn't put there that get the message across. The story was told to sell copies of the magazine. Even if they called me and asked me if I'd write my story for them, I'd still refuse, because I feel absolutely no connection to Nieuwe Revu. I think it's the wrong channel to get my message across. I mean, this interview feels good, I like this because the intentions behind it agree with my way of thinking. This is part of the path I want to walk, Nieuwe Revu isn't. And if you're ready and willing to change your life, it wouldn't have to take an article to jumpstart it, because you'll probably have that feeling anyway. I remember being in a club when I was 19, just looking around, thinking to myself : "What the hell am I doing here?" And I think it's that way with most people, that's the point when you start looking out for something new, something else.

So how do you feel about internet? Just as well a medium accessible for anyone with a computer. | I think when someone's interested, he'll go look for it. If not, why bother to look at a site full of stuff you don't understand ? But I think there are some people that are looking specifically for these things. I don't think it's wise to put for instance party info on the internet. But I do think it's a great medium.

** =article soon online here....